tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-750949408338221752.post6304988810225364721..comments2015-12-30T10:33:25.534+00:00Comments on Throw yourself like seed: Managing your ministerAnonymoushttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01248358840390936013noreply@blogger.comBlogger12125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-750949408338221752.post-64188597409375166902010-04-07T16:52:53.526+01:002010-04-07T16:52:53.526+01:00Perhaps the reason my congregation doesn't hav...Perhaps the reason my congregation doesn't have a problem is that Christianity is just one of the many flavours present - no the dominant or default one...Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01248358840390936013noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-750949408338221752.post-39844744844547649942010-04-07T16:38:12.334+01:002010-04-07T16:38:12.334+01:00I do insist that we must draw some boundaries, but...<em>I do insist that we must draw some boundaries, but mine would be primarily around keeping an open heart and open mind and not permitting abuse of any kind. This would exclude any group or person that insists aggressively that there is only one answer, one path, or one way. </em><br /><br />I agree very strongly, and think this is why most Pagans are natural allies of Unitarianism, if only some Pagans could get over their Christianophobia. Most Pagans take the view that all religions are different perspectives on the same underlying reality, and the reason they get riled with Christians is because most Christians take the opposite view.Yewtreehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02028699564003381058noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-750949408338221752.post-63093115805050723502010-04-05T23:00:12.073+01:002010-04-05T23:00:12.073+01:00Hi Ash - I was truly grateful for the comment beca...Hi Ash - I was truly grateful for the comment because it made me think more deeply about this. That's what we need to do. Not deflating, but appropriately challenging!<br /><br />btw, I'm pretty sure it wasn't your comment... but I do appreciate everything you said above!<br /><br />AndyAnonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01248358840390936013noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-750949408338221752.post-58334871014912223892010-04-05T22:10:09.011+01:002010-04-05T22:10:09.011+01:00Hi Andy,
Oops, er...I guess it was was me that pr...Hi Andy,<br /><br />Oops, er...I guess it was was me that probably caused you the consternation at the MUA. Certainly not meant.<br /><br />The backdrop was;<br />1.We realised that we needed a new Minister at our `New Meeting Church` to take over from the brilliant but exhausted and `retired` existing Minister-all this was agreed with her full support. We have subsequently applied, so far unsuccessfully, for a funding contribution toward this appointment.<br />2.Disappointing though this was, there was the blunt reality also that there aren`t that many Ministers out there anyway, and new trainees were/are very thin on the ground.<br /><br />So even though the comment could naturally be read in the way you interpreted above,it was offered,if you like , out of a frustration that<br />(a))Yes, there aren`t that many Ministers around and...<br />(b) Just maybe the `leadership` of our national community hasn`t quite come to grips with how significant this issue is.<br /><br />This needs to be a priority for the GA. Growth and renewal needs effective leadership, full stop. Financial capacity needs to be prioritised in this area.<br /><br />So that was the logic if you like behind the comment. It was an observation on the current state of play rather than a criticism of any propositions you were offering. Unfortunately it may have come across as one of those `deflating` comments that no one really needs. <br /><br />Thanks for the thoughts you have since given to this matter, and they`re certainly one`s we shall give full consideration to. Thanks also for your excellent contribution to the meeting in Birmingham-it was a breath of fresh air.<br /><br />Keep doing what you`re doing. Not a deeply philosophical comment, but totally relevant.<br /><br />Kind regards,<br />AshGeorge Tortoisehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04402343876776724851noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-750949408338221752.post-13756753096463237642010-04-05T18:57:43.776+01:002010-04-05T18:57:43.776+01:00Hi Yewtree
We do various pagan/Paganish celebrati...Hi Yewtree<br /><br />We do various pagan/Paganish celebrations in my congregation, so I certainly can't relate to the notion that Pagan is off-limits. <br /><br />I think this points to a tremendous differences between congregations as to how much diversity they will permit. This may not have been so much a question of new ways vs old as it was a question of theological openness. <br /><br />I <i>do</i> insist that we must draw some boundaries, but mine would be primarily around keeping an open heart and open mind and not permitting abuse of any kind. This would exclude any group or person that insists aggressively that there is only one answer, one path, or one way. <br /><br />Open-minded, open-hearted Pagan practitioners who affirm Unitarian values should - in my view - be welcomed with open arms. <br /><br />AndyAnonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01248358840390936013noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-750949408338221752.post-54868018926862472742010-04-05T18:38:11.126+01:002010-04-05T18:38:11.126+01:00Interesting discussion. I'd be interested to h...Interesting discussion. I'd be interested to hear your thoughts on the comment that a Wiccan friend of mine posted on my article about <a href="http://pagantheologies.pbworks.com/Pagan-tendencies-in-Unitarianism" rel="nofollow">Pagan tendencies in Unitarianism</a>: <em>Mmm, the conversation we had with our local Unitarian minister at Todmorden's Unitarian church was very much along the lines of "oh we couldn't use the church for any Pagan celebrations"</em><br /><br />I think perhaps one wouldn't open the conversation with "can we use your church for Pagan ritual" but by responding in the way that he did, that person missed an opportunity for growth, as I had told my friend about the Unitarian Earth Spirit Network and how inclusive we are, but that response put my friend off completely, I imagine. I have also read similar stories from members of UESN who have gone to their local Unitarian church, only to be told that there won't be any mention of the Goddess / Divine Feminine. <br /><br />As a relative newcomer to Unitarianism, I don't think I can expect it all to change instantly; trust has to be created on both sides - but I think people should be open to newcomers' ideas.Yewtreehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02028699564003381058noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-750949408338221752.post-89307294545453079822010-04-04T14:35:14.676+01:002010-04-04T14:35:14.676+01:00This comment has been removed by the author.Leighhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04544237040426549234noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-750949408338221752.post-24894006767937476032010-04-04T08:06:39.394+01:002010-04-04T08:06:39.394+01:00Think I've posted here before calling for Amer...Think I've posted here before calling for American "missionaries" to save British Unitarianism from itself... in any case I agree wholeheartedly with Andy's call - let's hope its taken up. <br /><br />Culturally I think Stephen has a point however - some kind of induction could be useful. As Oscar Wilde said, we are two cultures divided by a common language. I think it is easier for the British to go West because our media has been dominated by American shows/ films for years, and also the British are less demonstrative - as a non-ideological culture they don't really have a point to make, while you Americans often appear (and perhaps are!) much more "driven"...<br /><br />Actually, I don't think congregations are the bar to progress, more an excuse. Surely the real problem must be at the top, in so much as the leadership is not now, this very moment, actively seeking to inject new blood and ideas in to the church and thereby keep it alive. The excuse I presume is that the "three old ladies" who make up too many dying congregations wouldn't like it, but I suspect those old ladies might be rather more tolerant than the decision-makers in the movement itself - a good minister would after all make space for them as well as opening it up for others. Surely that's the point of Unitarianism - modern Unitarianism at any rate. <br /><br />Another concern is of course that for all their talk about inclusiveness, the leadership really want to hang on to a form of British Unitarianism that went out of fashion in around 1900 and most people left. Perhaps they see themselves as protecting the "true" Unitarian religion, which is understandable but does not stand up to much scrutiny - Unitarianism by its own definition rejects dogma and embraces the world as it is, hence its insistence of "Jesus the man". Hanging on to a Victorian conception of what Unitarianism is is like rejecting television, modern medicine and the internet which in which case I suppose we don't have to worry about them reading any of this!uni-talianhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12130575625229865792noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-750949408338221752.post-73960512246183053072010-04-03T21:41:38.857+01:002010-04-03T21:41:38.857+01:00This comment has been removed by the author.Leighhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04544237040426549234noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-750949408338221752.post-53400777350068566082010-04-03T12:28:41.737+01:002010-04-03T12:28:41.737+01:00Thanks Stephen. I'm pleased that the ideas in ...Thanks Stephen. I'm pleased that the ideas in the post strike you positively. I think your suggestion of using short-term internships or placements would be a great way to begin generating interest for recruiting!<br /><br />I hope too that we can see the length and depth of our British ministry training increased. <br /><br />I do agree that there is <i>some</i> cultural acclimation to be done when overseas ministers come here. The extent of that depends on the part of the UK and whether the congregation is rural or urban. I know that London is not Britain [I've been told to think of it as a different country altogether!], but at least in London, adapting has not been a case of entering into a completely different culture. It has been no more [and no less!] of a dramatic shift than going to a US congregation in a different location or with a different socioeconomic makeup.<br /><br />Interestingly, when British ministers have gone to the US, there have not been major concerns raised about cultural training. I don't know if that is because the American UU culture is more open to diversity or that Americans are simply more accepting of the the British than <i>vice versa</i>.<br /><br />I have had the label "young American" hurled at me as an insult here - and a room full of British people voiced no objection whatsoever to the comment. [I'm delighted by the 'young' part, btw...] I do wonder if part of the perceived incompatibility has to do with a more specific negative attitude toward Americans. Perhaps at least some of the cultural work needs to be with the congregation receiving an 'imported minister' and not simply adapting the minister to the congregation?<br /><br />AndyAnonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01248358840390936013noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-750949408338221752.post-86629721533560966712010-04-03T11:58:31.013+01:002010-04-03T11:58:31.013+01:00A lot of really good stuff here Andy.
Yes, we ne...A lot of really good stuff here Andy. <br /><br />Yes, we need to work hard at recruiting new ministers, and the training should be increased to three years.<br /><br />In the meantime we are going to need to recruit American ministers, but perhaps this needs to happen in a more sytematic way. American ministers need to realise its not just UUism with a different accent. They need to much more have the attitude that they would have if they were going to become ministers in the Brahmo Samaj in India: understanding that this is an entirely different religious movement in a different culture. In other words they need to understand themselves as missionaries. Good mission theory will tell you you need to spend a good amount of time studying the culture before you can engage with it. Perhaps there's a better way we can help American ministers adjust to cultural and religious differences. <br /><br />Summer internships for American seminarians would also help with recruitment.Stephen Lingwoodhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05785168356362616200noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-750949408338221752.post-49561734913544416992010-04-02T13:12:16.814+01:002010-04-02T13:12:16.814+01:00Yes, yes, yes!Yes, yes, yes!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com